On this episode of The Jon Gordon Podcast, I’m joined by Jill Schulman, author, former Marine, and a true thought leader on the psychology of bravery. Jill just released her powerful new book, The Bravery Effect, and together we dive deep into what it really means to be brave in today’s world.

We get personal right away, exploring the difference between bravery and courage, and why Jill believes bravery is a muscle we can all train. She shares both personal stories and groundbreaking research, like how action in the face of fear is what actually builds confidence, not the other way around. We talk about real-life moments where facing discomfort leads to growth, plus the common myth that brave people are simply fearless (spoiler: nobody is, and that’s not the goal).

Jill opens up about her time as a Marine and what it taught her about facing hard things, from grueling physical tests to being told she’d never make it, then proving everyone wrong. We unpack why our culture too often mistakes comfort for happiness, and how true fulfillment comes from doing the hard, brave thing even when we’re scared. Jill also reveals how overprotecting our kids can accidentally undermine their resilience, and offers science-backed, practical strategies for developing everyday bravery.

There’s plenty here for parents, leaders, students and honestly anyone ready to step into something new or challenging. We even walk through a real-world scenario, breaking down how someone can approach a tough conversation with courage and grace, and what it means to build your own “brave tribe” of supporters.

If you’ve ever wondered how to be braver, how to help others face their fears, or why it matters now more than ever, you’ll love this conversation. Tune in and take Jill’s free bravery assessment at https://www.jillschulman.com/jongordon, then get ready to take your own brave next step.

About Jill,

Jill Schulman is a former U.S. Marine Corps Officer, leadership development expert, and founder of Breakthrough Leadership Group. She has dedicated her career to studying and teaching the science of bravery, resilience, and peak performance—drawing on psychology, neuroscience, and behavioral science to create evidence-based strategies that help people and teams thrive.

Her newest book, The Bravery Effect, distills years of research and real-world experience into practical tools for developing courageous mindsets, taking bold action, and building brave relationships. Guided by her motto, “Courage over regret,” Jill is passionate about empowering others to embrace discomfort, grow through challenges, and stop letting fear hold them back.

Known for blending grit and curiosity with equal parts joy and discipline, Jill believes the world needs more courage and fewer excuses. Outside of work, she’s often hiking in Southern California, lifting at the gym, reading Stoic philosophy, or spending time with her husband of 20+ years and their two daughters.

Connect with Jill: jillschulman.com | LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook