Hey everyone, David Kern here. Before we get to this week's episode, I just want to tell you about the

Circe Institute Atrium Program. It's a one-year program that explores the foundations of Christian

classical education with online classes and discussions. The Atrium now features five different

courses, and participants can choose any one course or sign up for multiple courses. These courses

include our very own Heidi White, our very own hero, here on Close Reeds,

talking about classical pedagogy.

And then we've got Andrew Kern talking about classical rhetoric,

Matthew Bianco talking about Plato's Republic.

And then from West Callahan, you can choose either the Divine Comedy or the Iliad.

So there are great options for anybody who wants to dig into any of these subjects. If you'd like to learn more,

head over to surcee institute.com slash atrium. Again, that's surcey institute.com slash atrium.

And once again, those courses are Heidi Wade and classical pedagogy, Andrew Kern and classical rhetoric, Matthew Bianco on Plato's Republic, or West Callahan on The Divine Comedy or the Iliad. One more time, that link is surceyinstitute.com slash atrium.

And with that, let's get you this week's conversation.

Hello, I'm David Kern. I'm Heidi White. And I'm Tim McIntosh. And you are listening to Close

Reads, a podcast for the incurable reader on which we are discussing Walter Wengerins,

the book, the book of the Duncow.

One day I'm going to do an intro and I'm not going to stumble over myself,

but today is not that day.

You rarely, you stumbled last time and this time.

That does not make, it's not even a pattern.

Oh, thanks.

It's not even a pattern.

...