This is The Guardian.

Hi, I'm Shiuing Kala, and I'm Lucy Osborne.

You're listening to The Birth Pupers, a new six-part series from The Guardian Investigates.

Just before we start, this series contains references to baby loss and maternal harm.

In spring this year, after that group of students had been kicked out of the Matry Birth Midwifery Institute,

Emily and Yolanda seemed to have a moment of taking stock.

From the women who left the program, who did give us quite a bit of negative feedback.

A theme among all of them was,

this is not a midwifery school,

and you shouldn't sell it as that.

So in response, they rebranded the Matry Birth Midwifery Institute, or MMI.

Emily explained why on a call with the remaining students.

I'll be honest with you guys.

I think I just overplayed my hand.

I think Yo and I overplayed our hand, calling this a midwifery school.

Now, it would be the matri-birth mentor institute.

Which is the same thing.

It's literally the same thing.

Like, none of our material changes.

It's the same program, same everything.

Emily appeared concerned about the use of the term midwifery, which is regulated in many jurisdictions.

You know, it's hard for me to admit this because I don't want it to be this way.

...