This is thinking in public, a program dedicated to intelligent conversation about

frontline theological and cultural issues with the people who are shaping them. I'm Albert Mueller your host

and president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky.

Rodrier is senior editor at the American Conservative where he writes on social

issues and religion in the public square.

Dreyer's written or served as an editor for the New York Post, National Review, The Washington Times,

and other newspapers, including the Dallas Morning News. He's written for a variety

of other publications including the Wall Street Journal, the Los Angeles Times, and First Things.

He's appeared on NPR's All Things Considered in many other media programs and is the author of several books

including The Little Way of Ruthie Limming and How Dante can Save Your Life. His most

recent book is The Benedict Option, a strategy for Christians in a post-Christian nation.

Rod Dreyer, welcome to thinking in public.

Rod, the entire thesis of your book is that we're now in a changed situation as Christians in the context of North America, of the United States

of America.

And you point to several historical developments of which we are all acutely aware in making

that point.

But just state your thesis as aware in making that point.

But just state your thesis as clearly as you might to someone who has no idea actually why

you wrote this book.

I believe that we are on the edge of and in fact

within the collapse of Western civilization. It's a very comfortable collapse

because we're rich but it's collapsing nonetheless in the same way

...