Welcome back to the Ten Blocks podcast. This is Brian Anderson, the editor of City Journal.

Joining me on the show today is Joel Zimberg. This is Brian Anderson, the editor of City Journal. Joining me on the show

today is Joel Zimburg. Joel is a senior fellow with the Competitive Enterprise Institute

and an associate clinical professor of surgery at the Mount Sinai Icon School of Medicine.

He was a senior economist and general counsel at the White House Council of Economic

Advisers from 2017 to 2019, and he's been writing regularly for City Journal throughout the

COVID-19 pandemic. His latest article, following the politics, not the science, discusses the

lab leak theory of the virus's origins,

which has been a hot topic of late. So Joel, thanks for joining us again on the podcast.

My pleasure.

You know, before we get to that hot topic, the pandemic's origins, I think it makes sense just to start with a general discussion

of where we are in the pandemic in the U.S. I think the last time we had you on 10 blocks was in January.

Things seem very different now. The vaccination effort in the U.S., I think most people would say

has been a big success, with more than half

of all Americans now having received at least one dose. The cases and deaths are way down.

You know, there's some concern still with variants of the virus, but so far anyway, the vaccination

drive seems to have been kept ahead of the spread of new variants.

So where do you think we are with the pandemic? Is that too rosy of you that I'm picturing or not?

And, you know, what's your view of what the next months will look like?

I don't think it's too rosy of you at all. And in fact, you may recall, I wrote an article for

City Journal back at the beginning of April, suggesting that between vaccine immunity,

in other words, the people who've gained it through vaccination,

...