What we had was literally a race.

The militia is desperate to get to that down helicopter because it's a huge propaganda coup for them.

We're desperate to get there because we got our guys there.

At this point we don't know if any of them survived. We had got Jamie in there. At this point, we don't know if any of them survived.

We had got Jamie in there. Woody was working on him, and we got hit with an RPG.

Huge explosion. We hear women and kids inside that building.

So I grabbed Larry, and we had never done CQB together, and I said,

all right, LT.

You're ready? I go, I'm going to kick in the door. You go left, I'll go right, together and I said, all right, LT. You're ready?

I go, I'm going to kick in the door.

You go left, I'll go right or whatever I said.

And I said, don't shoot me.

I won't.

And that was our, that was our CQB training at that point.

Hi, and welcome to The Spear, a podcast by the Modern War Institute at West Point.

I'm John Amble, editorial director at MWI, and The Spear is our platform to explore the combat experience.

Each episode includes a single interview with guests who walk us through a particular event and their role in it.

A battle, a firefight, a mission.

It's a first-person account of combat.

This episode is part two of a conversation that we started in the last episode.

MWI's Jake Moraldi is back with our three guests,

Larry Perino, Lee Van Arsdale, and Kyle Lamb.

...