The Art of Pretending: Unmasking Con Artists with Javier Leiva
IndoctriNation
IndoctriNation
4.8 • 566 Ratings
🗓️ 12 March 2025
⏱️ 86 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
In this thought-provoking episode, Rachel welcomes Javier Leiva, a true crime podcaster and storyteller, to explore the intricate world of con artists and cult leaders. With his extensive background in journalism, Javier shares his insights into the psychology of deception and manipulation, drawing from his experiences with notorious fraudsters and his personal encounters with cults as documented in his podcast "Pretend"
Javier delves into the motivations behind con artists' actions, revealing how their charm and charisma can easily ensnare unsuspecting victims. He discusses the blurred lines between cults and con artists, emphasizing the similarities in their tactics of control and manipulation. Through captivating anecdotes, he illustrates how individuals can become entangled in these webs of deceit, often questioning their own reality and self-worth.
Find more about Javier and his podcast "Pretend" here:
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| 0:00.0 | Welcome to indoctrination, a weekly conversation series about protecting yourself from systems of control. |
| 0:11.2 | I'm your host, Rachel Bernstein. |
| 0:13.5 | Hello, everyone. Today on the show we have Javier Leva. |
| 0:19.1 | He is no stranger to the dark corners of the human psyche. |
| 0:25.4 | With his true crime podcast, pretend, criminal conduct, and the Ponzi playbook, he has carved |
| 0:33.9 | out a reputation as an immersive storyteller. His shows have revealed the truth about |
| 0:40.6 | infamous fraudsters like Frank Abaniel and even covered his own wild encounter with a dangerous cult |
| 0:48.4 | known as Word of Faith Fellowship. But his biggest expose might be his investigative series The Stalker, |
| 0:58.1 | which led to the arrest of two individuals accused of faking their own stalking. |
| 1:04.7 | Javier's reporting with major outlets like The New York Times and the BBC have been adapted into TV series such as Netflix's |
| 1:14.7 | Don't Pick Up the Phone and Discovery's Citizen P.I. |
| 1:22.5 | Here's Javier now. |
| 1:23.9 | Here's Javier now. |
| 1:39.4 | It is my pleasure to have Javier Lever on our show today. It is so important for you to be going and talking about all of these subjects on the podcast, |
| 1:49.9 | on this podcast, on other people's podcasts, I'm sure too, and having guests on who can talk |
| 1:56.2 | about a wide variety of different sorts of things. |
| 1:59.6 | I know we were just talking briefly about how this |
| 2:02.1 | conversation can go in many different directions, which is kind of exciting to see where it goes. |
| 2:07.0 | But I would love you to take a moment to introduce yourself. Go ahead. |
| 2:11.2 | Yeah, absolutely. My name's Javier Leva. Like you said, I'm the host of the pretend podcast. |
| 2:16.0 | I have other podcasts, too, but pretend is my main |
| 2:18.6 | podcast. And the shortcut, the elevator pitches that I tell people I interview con artists, but it's, |
... |
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