Before we go any further, I realise that many of you must have been listening to this podcast thinking,

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journalism. Hello, I'm Matt Kelly. And I'm Matt Dancona. And this is the two Matt's podcast brought to you

by the New European and it's a special edition where we speak to the quite formidable, incredible

Anne Applebaum about her new book, don't we, Matt?

Yeah, I mean, she's a great, I mean, I think she's one of, I've known her a long time,

she's one of the great writers and journalists of our time. And I, she's known, I think nowadays,

mostly as a columnist for the Atlantic, but she's also had a, she's got a whole shelf load of

books, one of which Gulag won a Pulitzer.

But she also more recently wrote a book called Twilight of Democracy, which for my money

is sort of the best single volume explanation of what went wrong with the right.

And she's kind of, I always think of Anne as she's kind of the journalist that Gotham needs, you know, because she kind of responded in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a founding the new European, actually, you know, that there was a new set of rules and a new set of problems and they needed to be addressed. And she's done so. And, and she's got this new book out called Autocracy Inc, the dictators who want to run the world.

It's out Alan Lane this week.

And we had a great chat with her.

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