You're listening Ad-Free on Amazon Music.

The following podcast contains spoilers.

We strongly recommend you watch the episode of The Americans

We're discussing before listening to the podcast.

New episodes air Wednesdays at 10 p.m. on FX.

Having a wife and a child back is a good anchor.

On the other hand, having the wife with you,

hopefully wouldn't make you go astray the way I did.

So there's no ideal situation to keep an illegal forever.

Music Hello and welcome to Slate's TV Club Insider podcast for Season 4 of the Americans.

I'm June Thomas, a writer and editor at Slate, and I'm the host of the podcast in which we take you behind the scenes and share some of these secrets in the making of

the show. I've returned once again to gorgeous Gowanus Brooklyn, where the show is made to

discuss episode two of season four, Pastor Tim. Today I'll be joined by Joe Wiseberg, the creator of

the show. Hello, Joe. Hi, June. And his co-show runner and co-executive producer, Joel Fields.

Hello, Joel. Hey, how are you? And we have a really exciting special guest, a real life illegal, as agents like Philip and Elizabeth were known, Jack Barski. Jack, thank you so much for coming and joining us on the podcast. I'm glad to join you, good and talk. Good and talk. Now, I just want to have one quick question before we get to Jack.

We had a crazy scene in this episode of Philip cold killing a transit cup.

This guy, are you still telling me he's not just a psychopathic murderer?

You've got to stop calling him a psychopathic.

First of all, Jack's right here. Jack wasn't illegal. Jack doesn't look like a psychopath, does he? He does not. He's a very charming death. And Jack, how many people did you kill on buses? Probably like 10, 11 people? No, these hands have never touched a weapon. Even in training? Even in training, never touched a weapon. No. No weapons training.

Only some self-defense.

Well, of course, Philip didn't use a weapon for this particular murder. Jack hasn't seen it yet. No. But what choice? He probably provoked him. I mean, how many times can't have that. how many take you exactly even jacks how many times how many times can philip just tell the guy to please cut them a break and let them go about their day?

I mean, I think actually that Transicot was suicidal, obviously.

...