The American Dream: Pelé, Cosmos + Rise & Fall of NASL | Part One
It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast
The Overlap
4.9 • 667 Ratings
🗓️ 30 December 2025
⏱️ 61 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by a special guest and former footballer Dennis Tueart. In this first episode of our four-part special on the North American Soccer League (NASL), Dennis, known for his iconic moments with Sunderland and Manchester City, shares his remarkable journey from English football to the booming NASL in the 1970s. Discover his experiences with the New York Cosmos, playing alongside legends like Franz Beckenbauer, replacing Pele, navigating cultural shifts, and understanding the challenges and triumphs that shaped the future of soccer in America. Don't miss this deep dive into football history, glamour, and the evolution of the beautiful game in the United States.
00:57 Dennis Tueart's Transfer to the Cosmos
02:05 Challenges and Decisions
04:19 Arrival and Initial Impressions
07:15 Experiences and Reflections
11:38 Life in the NASL
17:18 Training and Facilities
18:58 Pre-season and Early Challenges
25:14 The NASL's Unique Rules
29:55 Challenges and Triumphs in the NASL
30:25 Play-off Performances and Nicknames
30:59 Intense Matches and Injuries
31:36 The Semi-final Comeback
36:27 Winning the Conference Final
37:40 Facing Rodney Marsh and Tampa Bay
42:51 Touring and Transitioning
46:53 Final Reflections and Legacy
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Welcome to It Was What It Was, What It Was, and welcome to our special edition, which is kicking off our series on USA Soccer Leagues, or rather the attempt to launch football leagues in America. |
| 0:18.7 | Such a big part of the game, obviously, with the MLS now. |
| 0:21.9 | But we're going to go back in history and look at a few of the attempts to get soccer |
| 0:26.4 | going in the United States. |
| 0:28.1 | And we're absolutely delighted to be joined by a legend of football over there, over the pond, |
| 0:34.3 | in Dennis Stewart. |
| 0:35.9 | Obviously, we know him over here as a member of Sunderland's |
| 0:38.8 | 973 FA Cup winning team. |
| 0:41.2 | And for his amazing overhead kick for Manchester City in the 1976 |
| 0:45.3 | League Cup final, that is definitely worth looking up on YouTube. |
| 0:49.0 | But Dennis was also the first English player at his peak to move over to that |
| 0:53.3 | league in North America. |
| 0:55.0 | So Dennis, thank you very much for joining us. |
| 0:57.7 | So how did it come about? |
| 0:59.5 | The cosmos are looking for an upgrade on Pelle and they came naturally enough to you. |
| 1:03.2 | Well, it was typically as a footballer. |
| 1:05.5 | A footballer's history or career is defined by the word M. |
| 1:09.7 | M means either you're not being paid enough money, |
| 1:11.8 | but you're fall out with the manager, |
| 1:13.1 | and then you're going to make decisions after that. And Tony Pug and I, he weren't seeing eye to eye. I was 28. I was still in the England squad, and I had a couple of injuries. When I came back, he put me on the bench for a couple of games, so I wasn't desperately happy. So I asked for a transfer. |
| 1:25.9 | And this is what's 778? |
| 1:27.3 | This is sort of the autumn of 77. |
... |
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