Hi there, 2020 podcast listeners. Welcome to the 2020 After Show. I'm Deborah Roberts, and on Friday night, we brought you a show called Dirty Little Secret. Matt Baker was a charismatic minister in Hewitt, Texas, and he was leading a life at the center of his community, along with his

wife, Carrie Baker, who was a Sunday school teacher at the church. They had two little girls.

So when Carrie died of what appeared to be suicide, the community rallied around the grief-stricken

pastor. But Carrie's family didn't. They suspected that something was amiss.

Calling themselves the Charlie's Angels of Waco, they launched their own investigation revealing

something that was pretty shocking in this church community, lies and adultery. And ultimately,

of course, they helped law enforcement uncover Matt's

plot to kill his wife. Here's a clip from the show. I remember Nancy saying, Linda, have you

ever considered that perhaps Carrie didn't take her life? I remember stammering and saying,

oh, what are you talking about? Murder?

We don't think Carrie killed herself. We know she didn't. We all hung on those words, too, on last

week's 2020. On today's 2020 after show, I get the pleasure to talk to 2020 producer Denise Martinez

Ramundo, who I normally talk to in the field,

but today we get to talk a little more formally, and associate producer Samantha Wonderer. They

both were a big part of telling this story, sifting through hours of archival interviews, 2020

conducted over the years, really, with Matt Baker and speaking to new voices to

help John Cignonas take a fresh look at this case. So welcome to both of you. Thank you, Debra.

Thanks for having us. This is kind of wild. We're actually getting to talk in this formal way.

So, Denise, let me start with you because you and I have worked on countless stories together.

And you have this knack for digging, digging, digging me start with you because you and I have worked on countless stories together,

and you have this knack for digging, digging, digging into the old files and finding things that maybe either we thought was sort of interesting at the time or maybe not as much, and then you

find something new. So what is it about this story? And of course, we've covered a lot of stories

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