That UL safety logo is a lot more complicated than it looks

Decoder with Nilay Patel

Vox Media Podcast Network

Business, Technology

4.2 • 3.4K Ratings

🗓️ 27 April 2026

⏱️ 62 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Jennifer Scanlon is CEO of UL Solutions, one of those hidden-in-plain-sight companies we like to poke at here on Decoder. UL's been around for more than 100 years; it started as a way for insurance companies to standardize fire and safety testing as electricity was the new technology spreading into homes. But now it's everywhere, and "safety" in tech doesn't just mean the hardware. UL is adapting quickly to the connected, AI-powered era... but do the companies making and distributing tech even care about standards anymore? Links: How fake UL certifications led to Chinese ebike suit | Electrek FCC IoT program loses UL after China probe | Cybersecurity Dive FCC’s Carr probes IoT program lab over “ties to China” | PC Mag The US router ban, explained | The Verge More than 500,000 hoverboards recalled (2016) | The Verge Brendan Carr is a dummy | The Vergecast Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder! Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Kabir Chopra. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	Dell PCs with Intel Inside are built for the moments you plan and for the ones you don't.
0:06.0	For those early morning news sessions, or when you're on the go and leave your charger at home,
0:12.0	or even the times you need the best processing speed to just get the job done.
0:16.0	Dell built tech that adapts to you.
0:19.0	Built with a long-lasting battery, so you're not scrambling for an outlet.
0:24.0	And with built-in intelligence, that makes updates around your schedule, not in the middle of it.
0:29.4	Find technology built for the way you work at Dell.co.uk forward slash Dell PCs.
0:35.6	Built for you.
0:42.4	Thank you. Hello and welcome to Decoder. I'm Neelai Patel, editor-in-chief of the verge, and
0:45.6	Dakota is my show about big ideas and other problems. Today I'm talking to Jennifer Scanlon,
0:49.9	the CEO of UL Solutions. That's Underwriters' Laboratories, you know, the UL logo listed on all your
0:56.0	electronics. That symbol means it's been tested and found safe in a variety of ways. UL has been
1:02.3	around for a hundred years. It started as a way for insurance companies to do fire and safety
1:07.9	testing on electrical products, just as electricity was coming into homes.
1:12.3	But now UL is everywhere, and it's one of those companies that we really like to poke at here on Decoder,
1:16.9	because it's basically hidden in plain sight. That logo is on everything.
1:20.9	But scratch the surface, and the business of UL is pretty complicated.
1:24.7	There are tons of cheap non-UL products on Amazon, full of lithium ion batteries.
1:30.0	And maybe people just care about price and not certifications. The company is also now trying to do
1:35.1	safety testing for AI systems. It just rolled out a new standard called UL 3115, a quote,
1:41.5	structured framework to evaluate AI-based products before and during deployment.
1:46.3	That kind of standard requires a lot of companies and regulators to buy in, and for there
	...

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