I recall definitely saying that I didn't want to have children and I thought JT felt the same way,

but it turned out that later he became more and more interested in a family until I knew,

you know, he knew that he wanted to be a father. He was no longer on the fence anymore.

And he wasn't going to accept no and still be in a relationship with me.

Hi, I'm Willow Belden and you're listening to Out There, the podcast that explores big questions through intimate stories outdoors.

On this episode, we're going to talk about one of the biggest decisions any of us will ever make,

the decision whether or not to have children. It's a life-changing question regardless of your

situation, but it can feel especially daunting when you and

your partner are not on the same page about it. What happens if you come to an impasse, if you simply

can't agree on whether or not to start a family? My guest is the author of a memoir called It Happened

Like This.

Her name is Adrian Lindholm.

And for her, the parenthood decision was about much more than simply wanting kids or not wanting kids.

It was a choice that called into question her entire identity,

a choice that shook her marriage to the core and that forced her to completely reevaluate who she was.

So in order to understand Adrian's dilemma, you have to understand that she was one of those people who organized her entire life around getting out into the wilderness.

Adrian grew up outside of Philadelphia, but from a pretty young age, she felt drawn to the West.

In college, she lined up summer jobs in Colorado,

and she later moved to Utah and Montana.

She loved her adventurous lifestyle,

and the more she explored,

the more she sought out the wildest, most

...