either we're going to see more consolidation or the whole structure will be dramatically overthrown.

I'm hoping for the latter.

Hello and welcome to Tech Won't Save Us, a podcast that thinks there's no crisis Elon Musk won't try to turn into a PR opportunity.

I'm your host, Paris Marx, and today I'm joined by Wendy Liu. Wendy is the author of Abolished Silicon Valley, How to Liberate technology from capitalism. She's also written for

Logic Magazine, Tribune Magazine, and The New Statesman. Today, we talk about her book, as well as

the impact of COVID-19 on the tech industry and workers. Before we start the interview, I just

want to say, Tech Won't Save Us is a new podcast. It's just recently

launched. This is our first episode. So if you like what you hear, consider going to Apple or

anywhere else that you listen to podcasts and leaving a review. Also feel free to share the interview.

Obviously that helps not just the podcast, but it would help Wendy and our other guests

in the future as well to promote their books and what they're doing.

You can also follow Tech Won't Save Us on Twitter, where our handle is at Tech Won't Save

Us.

My handle is at Paris Marks.

And you can also follow Wendy at Dell System.

Thanks for tuning in and enjoy the interview. Wendy Lou, welcome to Tech

Won't Save Us. Thanks for having me on. Obviously we're in this kind of like unprecedented

moment, this like really extraordinary situation with COVID-19 kind of shutting things down across

the world. And tech is obviously having a very specific response to that.

You know, we're seeing Amazon, Instacart are really benefiting from having everyone at home

and people needing to order all of these different items to try to avoid going to the shops.

And in response, they're not treating their workers so great,

...