During the chaos of the Trump years, the big running joke was that the New York Times

kept reporting about UFOs, and that was still one of the least shocking news events

during that chaotic time.

And so how did you get, you know, as a long time reporter

for the Times, how did you get into the UFOB and how did you get UFOs on the front page of the

New York Times in 2020? Well, 2017, it started. Right. But 2020 was the big, like, gasp reveal.

Yeah. Well, we got it in in 2020 because we had

broken the ground in 2017 with that big front page story about atyp, you know, the secret

Pentagon unit that was investigating UFOs that no one knew about until we broke the story on the

front page of the Times.

After that, we had some follow-ups, including in 2020, where we talked about close encounters,

close calls, Navy jets, almost colliding with some of these UFOs.

And finally, we kind of broke the story that Congress or committees in Congress were briefed on

materials, okay, quote.

Very difficult story to get, and we can talk about that in more detail.

You know, and that was in the height of the Trump craziness, breaking that story.

So, but that was really the trajectory. We did a number of stories

starting in 2017. And how did your colleagues react to you working on these stories all these

years? Well, we're mixed. You know, we were the butt of some jokes, some joking in the

Washington Bureau, particularly

Helene Cooper, who collaborated with Leslie Kane and me on the first story. She was and is the

Pentagon correspondent, so she took some heat from her colleagues. They would go, you know,

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