We can see a kind of rising panic amongst much, as you say, it's quite divided and complex

establishment, but nonetheless, the democratic establishment such as it is. We've seen Hillary

Clinton very outspoken in her criticisms of Bernie Sanders. John Kerry has been overheard

or strategizing about ways to stop Sanders, including possibly running himself.

And then we've seen the Democratic National Committee members talking about changing the convention rules

in order to make it harder for Sanders to win the nomination.

How far do you think Centralist Democrats might go in their efforts to stop Sanders?

Yeah, I mean, it is definitely concerning because in addition to these kind of rhetorical

interventions, so Clinton's, you know, these different podcasts and interviews that,

the Netflix series, I guess, that she's been on and her comments to the press, this

conversation about Kerry. Earlier on, Obama was sort of also being critical of candidates

that were too far left. There are these rhetorical interventions. In addition to rhetoric, we have

the possibility of using procedural mechanisms. So there's the procedures that already have sort

of tilted the field against Sanders, which is the Democratic National Committee

kind of appointments that Tom Perez announced recently. And then there's the convention itself

and these superdelegates. And so they're all different kind of procedural power plays that can be

used to make the nomination of Sanders less likely, even if he wins the popular vote of the

different primaries. So we have to be aware of

those. But I don't think we should get too bogged down in either rhetoric or procedural plays

coming from the center right now. I think what's most important is that realistically, if Sanders

does resoundingly well in the primaries, the rhetoric and the procedural

ploys are like going to be a very limited utility for the center because either they will

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