You know, I've never talked about this, but when I was growing up fundamentalist, I feared

hell.

I still do in a way, but I would go to bed and I would pray and I would start at the

beginning of my day and retrace my steps trying to remember every sin I committed and then

would ask God to forgive me.

Even though I was ostensibly saved, right, there was still the drama of like, is it real?

Like because I was taught there are sort of fake Christians, right, carnal Christians,

Christians who fall away.

You know, I would think my friends would be going to hell and I would like to invite

them to church or I would press them on whether they actually knew Jesus as their Lord

and Savior because you love them.

Exactly.

But I do think like there's something experientially, you grow up and you travel more, you meet

all kinds of people and the question like, is it really true that everyone's going to

burn and hell forever, but the narrow faction of people I grew up going to church with.

Right.

Like any morally sensitive person, that's a kind of monstrous possibility.

It's kind of like if that's true, then the religion is wrong, do you know what I mean?

Well, yes.

I mean, I'm not saying that that's how you thought of it, but if you fall in love with the

world and with people who you care about who do not share those beliefs and that love

is strong enough and you know that what you're supposed to believe about them is that they're

...