TEASER: Masha Gessen: The Problem Is Not Russian Interference. It’s That We Let It In.

The Daily Beast Podcast

The Daily Beast

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4.6 • 8.4K Ratings

🗓️ 16 November 2020

⏱️ 4 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

President Donald Trump may be following Vladimir Putin’s Autocratic playbook closer than we all realize—and the Russian interference was just the tip of the iceberg. In this bonus members-only episode of The New Abnormal, the New Yorker staff writer and Surviving Autocracy author Masha Gessen joins co-host Molly Jong-Fast to talk about this phenomenon. They explain that leaders like Trump and Putin put a system in place to hold power, and if you’re wondering how a man like Trump could do something so seemingly elaborate, it makes sense. “The destruction they wreak is all the more effective because of the incompetence,” Gessen explains. “They thrive on instability. The more anxious people are the less likely they are to opt for change ” Biden, they say, will have to dismantle this system (though they wish the president-elect would ditch the “Build Back Better” campaign). Why? For the same reason they dislike when people solely focus on Russian interference. “We've been very stupid to focus on it as much as we have,” Gessen explains. “The problem is not Russian interference, the problem is we sank so low to where Russian interference sank in.” Plus! Hear why they compare Trump to a ‘witch afraid of water’ when it comes to lawmakers of color like AOC and the late John Lewis. Want more? Become a Beast Inside member to enjoy a limited-run series of bonus interviews from The New Abnormal. Guests include Cory Booker, Jim Acosta, and more. Head to newabnormal.thedailybeast.com to join now. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	What you're about to hear is a teaser for our new bonus episodes we're doing for subscribers to beast inside the Daily Beast membership program
0:07.4	We have a very special guest with Masha Gessen who is an author and journalist who writes brilliantly on authoritarians
0:13.0	And we're gonna have her discuss with us why we should all care about this subject again
0:17.6	This is for beast inside members only to hear this along with the rest of our upcoming bonus episodes
0:22.7	Head to new abnormal dot the Daily Beast dot com. That's new abnormal dot the Daily Beast dot com
0:28.9	We're so thrilled to have you today. Thank you. First. I wanted to talk to you
0:33.0	You wrote this piece in the New York guard last week or this week or today
0:38.2	Who even knows in the end of forever Tuesday? Yeah, right exactly and it was and I know you've written about this in your books
0:45.6	And you've written about this before but it was so struck by it and
0:50.1	I wanted to talk to you about this idea that we kind of got off easy this time the piece
0:56.8	I published right after the election was
1:00.3	Over right after the election we're still in the election. It's like we're always in March and always in in the election
1:05.8	It's about the concept of an autocratic breakthrough
1:08.4	I borrowed that idea from a Hungarian sociologist
1:11.3	Balund Majer who's work. I've used a lot his brilliant and his developed this very detailed model based on studying
1:18.9	The central eastern European democratic backsliding and he divides a talk for season to three stages
1:25.0	Autocratic attempt autocratic breakthrough and autocratic consolidation now what distinguishes the autocratic attempt
1:32.8	Is that it is reversible by electoral means and the thing is like we don't know or we don't necessarily always know
1:40.6	When the autocratic attempt is over when it has passed into autocratic breakthrough, but he suggests that there are structural changes
1:48.5	And institutional changes that aspiring autocrats put in place that create the process of autocratic breakthrough and after we pass through
1:57.3	The autocratic breakthrough. It is no longer possible to dislodge the autocrat by peaceful means
2:03.2	So what he looks at is what he calls
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