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We've been talking a lot about how disability gets framed as an exception, as a discrete event,

that's something to be standardized, to be taxonomized, to really kind of be sort of made legible,

even though it can take many different, you know, definitions and

different contexts. Nevertheless, it's sort of point is to be turned into something really kind

of tangible. Whereas debility takes us towards, you know, the endemic, the things that are so

structural to the conditions of life for entire populations that they would

never become so discreet in the first place. But for you, what does debility help us apprehend

a little differently than disability? First of all, I wanted just to flag Julie Livingston's work,

because that's where I first started thinking about the

term debility. And it's from her book called Dability and the Moral Imagination in Botswana.

And but one of the most important things that she writes is that she's interested in bodily

infirmities that are not regarded as disability because she writes is that she's interested in bodily infirmities that are not regarded as disability

because she writes, they are expected impairments and understood as such. They are understood as

normal or what we're calling endemic. So there's nothing exceptional about these expected impairments.

And she's looking at miners who are returning from the mines, usually amputated, right?

In that context. So, you know, here's a kind of literature from, you know, her work and related

works from Global South's

literatures that's actually, you know, not following the kind of Euro-American

models of disability and disability studies or the UN models or the NGO models or

whatever.

She's actually like actually these are,

...