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Listen to The Closer, Cast from Harvard Business Review. I'm Sarah Green-Carmichael.

Today I'm talking with Tim Brown, CEO of IDO.

He's written HBO articles, a book, and is now teaching courses through I do You about

leading creativity.

Tim, thank you so much for talking with us today.

Thanks very much.

It's great to be here.

So I think the topic of this course is really interesting

and I'm curious to sort of dig into some of the details here

about leading creativity but let's back up a little bit to start what's your

goal in all of this? So there's an important nuance here and it's actually all to be

found in the title of the

course it's called leading for creativity. The nuance here is we're actually not

trying to teach creativity. I mean lots of people doing that including us but

everything from whether it's teaching design thinking, whether it's going to art school or whatever it might be.

There's lots and lots of stuff, I mean endless things on trying to get individual people to be more creative.

That is not actually what we're interested in here. What we're

interested in is how do people who have leadership roles in organizations, whether they be

businesses or other forms of institutions, unlock the creativity of their

organization. In other words how do they lead other people so that those people are

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