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I'm Brian Hyatt, and this is Rolling Stone Music Now.

Today I have with me Brittany Spanos and Rob Sheffield and the subject at hand is

Taylor Mania. As the era's tour proceeds, it's become more and more clear that Taylor Swift has reached

incredible new heights of popularity. As huge an artist as she has been, and's been pretty damn huge, there's no doubt it's reached a whole other level this year.

You can quantify it. The streaming numbers show it. The tens of thousands of people gathered outside of stadiums shows it. This is a real thing that's happened.

Rob and Brittany and I definitely wanted to talk about the Aris Tour, especially now that we've all seen it

and celebrate briefly the impending

singledom of Cruel Summer, long earned that it has been.

But we wanted to trace a little bit how this happened and we were

talking a little bit about it before the show started a big part of it is okay so

lover comes out in 2019 great album I think it's now become super embraced by everyone and I

think people realized if anything was a little bit underappreciated at the time

but it was by no means assured that this was about to launch Taylor to yet another new level of

superstardom that was going to come, even in her own mind.

And what was supposed to happen was Loverfest that summer and then there was the pandemic and

...