Talk Your Book: Making Money When Stocks Are Up or Down

Animal Spirits Podcast

The Compound

News, Business News, Business, Investing

4.8 • 2K Ratings

🗓️ 22 September 2025

⏱️ 32 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

On this episode of Animal Spirits: Talk Your Book, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Michael Batnick⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Ben Carlson⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ are joined by Graham Day, EVP and CIO of Innovator Capital Management to discuss: what the Dual Direction ETF is, how the portfolio is constructed, different outcomes with this product, the timing around buffered ETFs, and much more. Find complete show notes on our blogs... Ben Carlson’s ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠A Wealth of Common Sense⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Michael Batnick’s ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Irrelevant Investor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Feel free to shoot us an email at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ with any feedback, questions, recommendations, or ideas for future topics of conversation. Check out the latest in financial blogger fashion at The Compound shop: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://idontshop.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Investing involves the risk of loss. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be or regarded as personalized investment advice or relied upon for investment decisions. Michael Batnick and Ben Carlson are employees of Ritholtz Wealth Management and may maintain positions in the securities discussed in this video. All opinions expressed by them are solely their own opinion and do not reflect the opinion of Ritholtz Wealth Management. See our disclosures here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://ritholtzwealth.com/podcast-youtube-disclosures/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ The Compound Media, Incorporated, an affiliate of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Ritholtz Wealth Management⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, receives payment from various entities for advertisements in affiliated podcasts, blogs and emails. Inclusion of such advertisements does not constitute or imply endorsement, sponsorship or recommendation thereof, or any affiliation therewith, by the Content Creator or by Ritholtz Wealth Management or any of its employees. For additional advertisement disclaimers see here ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://ritholtzwealth.com/advertising-disclaimers⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	Today's Animal Spirits Talk Your Book is brought to you by Innovator ETFs.
0:03.5	Go to Innovatoretefs.com to learn more about their whole new dual direction ETF suite.
0:09.0	That's Innovatoretefs.com.
0:11.0	Welcome to Animal Spirits, a show about markets, life, and investing.
0:17.0	Join Michael Batnik and Ben Carlson as they talk about what they're reading,
0:21.3	writing, and watching. All opinions expressed by Michael and Ben are solely their own opinion
0:25.9	and do not reflect the opinion of Ridholt's wealth management. This podcast is for informational
0:30.6	purposes only and should not be relied upon for any investment decisions. Clients of Ridholt's
0:35.7	wealth management may maintain positions in the
0:37.8	securities discussed in this podcast. Welcome to Animal Spirits with Michael and Ben. Michael,
0:45.8	we've talked about the defined outcome ETF space for a number of years now. And I can't
0:51.8	recall who we were talking about this with a couple months ago.
0:55.0	And our thought process was, well, the fact that you can now get these in a more liquid tax-efficient wrapper must mean that the insurance industry is pissed.
1:03.0	They must be having a hard time. And this person said, no, no, no, no. Actually, these ETFs are growing, but the demand for those insurance-like products is growing as well,
1:13.3	the structured notes and such.
1:15.3	And that, I think, surprised both of us.
1:17.5	And I think what that tells you is that there is just a huge demand from advisors and investors
1:23.7	for this type of product.
1:25.2	The only thing that investors like more than outcome are defined
1:30.8	out. I'm sorry. Damn it. I messed it up. The only thing they like more than income is defined outcome.
1:39.3	Ah. If you would have just nailed it now. That's like it is what it is. I'm a one take guy.
1:42.8	Trips. One take guy. Sometimes meeting your trips over is. I just belly flopped the landing. That is what it is. I'm a one-take guy. Trips. One-take-guy. Sometimes- meeting your trips over is there.
	...

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