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podcast. So we spoke with Gibson Smith about this. It's easy to look at the chart and say,

oh we've been in a 30 year, 40 year bond bull market.

And the wind was at your back, you had high rates, you had falling rates.

How come there aren't more star bond managers if it was that easy?

Making the case, it obviously it was not that easy in real time. I remember being part of an

organization in 2007 that did some crazy interest rate swap.

We were consulting on this because they thought that rates were never going to go below 4%.

...