Today's Animal Spirits talk your book is presented by Madison Investments.

Go to Madisoninvestments.com to learn more about their Madison Midcap and Madison Largecap

strategy, which comes in both SMAs and mutual funds. That's Madisoninvestments.com.

Welcome to Animal Spirits, a show about markets, life, and investing.

Join Michael Batnik and Ben Carlson as they talk about what they're reading, writing, and watching.

Michael Batnik and Ben Carlson work for RIT Holt's Wealth Management.

All opinions expressed by Michael and Ben or any podcast guests are solely their own opinions

and do not reflect the opinion of RIT Holt's Wealth Management. This podcast is for informational

purposes only and should not be relied upon for investment decisions. Clients of RIT Holt's Wealth

Management may maintain positions in the securities discussed in this podcast.

Welcome to Animal Spirits with Michael and Ben. Today was an interesting episode because we spoke

with a portfolio manager who is only considering the fundamentals of the business.

They is what you call a bottom-up stock picker, but nevertheless, you know, I think early in my

career I called the bottoms-up. Is that what I call it? You call the bottom-up. I think you're right.

I think I used to call it bottoms-up. You know what we did won't bottoms-up? It's bottom-up.

It is bottom-up. But we used to inner tube down a river. My parents have a place that's

on a river. The pre-market river in Northern Michigan. If you saw a stick sticking out of the water,

you told people behind you bottoms-up because that meant you had to watch out for the stick

otherwise it would get you in the rear end. Anyway. The more you know.

So even bottom-up stock pickers who are really unconcerned with the macro vicissitudes,

which is the word that I think I'm using right, the ups and the downs, you can't not pay attention

to the macro because it's such a defining time for that meaning like the cost of capital,

...