It's the Brian Larry Show on WNYC. Good morning again, everyone. We often recognize racism when it's

expressed or acted on explicitly by an individual, but we don't always see systemic

racism, like just how much it's ingrained in the fabric of American society and what drives

it.

So joining us now is Tricia Rose, Chancellor's Professor of Africana Studies and Director of the Center

for Race and Ethnicity

in America at Brown University. And Trish Rose has a new book, Meta Racism, how systemic racism

devastates Black Lives and how we break free. She attempts to explain the interlocking and

mutually reinforcing policies that disadvantaged black Americans, even if they are

invisible to other Americans. Professor Rose, it's always great to have you on the show. Welcome

back to WNYC. Thank you. Thank you, Brian. It's great to be back. Let's start with the title of your book.

What does meta-racism mean? Yes. Well, before I give you a definition,

let me just say that I understand this is the kind of term that some people might get anxious

about because it sounds like, you know, it's impossible to get over and get beyond, right?

Because meta seems perpetually beyond us. But it is not intended to provoke that sort of worry. It is, in fact,

the use of meta is a systems term that is incredibly helpful for seeing precisely some of the

interlocking ways that meta and systemic racism work. So meta-racism are the dynamic and compounding patterns of racial

disadvantage and discrimination. And those compounding patterns are produced not by one single

policy or by even a legacy of one policy, but by the interconnections that various policies have to one another that produce

effects that are greater than the sum of those policies put together. So if you have broken

windows policing and you also have maximum minimum sentencing, you have standard ground

policies that impact black people distinctively

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