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supporting today's show. Getting off that hamstful of, looking around, people suddenly realize, I don't know,

maybe I've been working a job for the last 15 years that doesn't fulfill me that I'm not happy with,

or my partner's not doing it for me.

You know, you've never stopped and looked around and got off and the, you know, that hamswill.

And we've had people leave their partners and we've had people leave their jobs. We've had obese people who are now marathon runners. We've had big, quite seismic changes.

I don't position it as a transformational travel experience and I don't really want to attract

people who are maybe in the midst of a midlife crisis too much. But yeah, it is beneficial

for people, partly through the diversity and partly just for slowing down, I think.

That is a clip from today's guest, Tom Williams, talking about the inadvertent transformative nature of the trips he runs for his company, Desert Island Survival, where he can take you to a deserted island, experts teach you survival skills, then they leave you stranded there to survive for three days.

You can check it out at Desert Island Survival.com as an accompany to this interview if you want to read up on what he does.

And today you'll hear Tom discuss some of his own transformative travel experiences, how he went from working as an international

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