It's the Brian Larry Show on WMRC. Good morning again, everyone. Time now for some fierce love for yourself and for the world. Some of you know my next guest, one of New York's

foremost spiritual leaders who herself leads a Christian church, but who I think would describe

herself also as a universalist. It is the Reverend Dr. Jackie Lewis, Reverend because she is the

senior minister at the Middle Collegiate Church on East 7th Street

in Manhattan. She is also a public theologian, and we'll talk about what that means. Doctor,

because she holds a PhD in psychology and religion, universal, because even though Middle Church's

physical space burned down in a fire a few

years ago, its website says they have members in 40 plus states and 20 plus countries, and those

members are Buddhist, Muslim, Jewish, atheist, or agnostic, and Christians of every denomination

in creed. What unites us, ask the website, commitment to this

movement for love and justice. Reverend Dr. Lewis has been on the show to help us deal with

isolation and grief at the height of the pandemic in 2020. She was on in January of last year to

reinforce black and Jewish mutual support along with Rabbi Joshua Stanton.

And she was on in 2021 for the publication of her book, Fierce Love, A Bold Path to Ferocious

Courage and Rule-breaking Kindness that can heal the world.

Next weekend, Middle Church and Reverend Dr. Lewis are holding a three-day conference that they

call Freedom Rising, 24, an election year gathering. Middle Church and Reverend Dr. Lewis are holding a three-day conference that they call

Freedom Rising, 24, an election year gathering, and she gathers with us. Now, Reverend

Doctor, always great to talk to you. Welcome back to WNYC.

Brian, I'm so glad to be with you today. How are you? I'm okay. Thank you for asking. That's probably the first

thing you say to everybody doing what you do. How are you? It is. It is. I want to know, and I'm glad

you told me. I'm okay too. What's a public theologian? No, it's a person who puts talk of God, talk of our relationship to God or a holy other or spirituality

...