I'm Krista Tippett, today liberating the founders.

Americans remain divided about how much religion they want in their political life.

As we elect a new president, we return to an evocative, relevant conversation from earlier

this year with journalist Stephen Waldman.

From his unusual study of the American founders, he understands why 21st century struggles over

religion and the public square spur passionate disagreement and entanglement with politics

that it's most impure.

You want to, at some point, reach back in time and just kind of slap Madison in the face

and say, gently, because he was a frail man, but still, you want to shake him and say,

don't you realize what trouble you're making for us?

Can't you be much clearer about this?

We're going to have 200 years of fights over this.

Could you please be more clear?

Krista speaking of faith, stay with us.

This public radio podcast is supported by the Fetzer Institute as part of its campaign

for Love and Forgiveness online at loveandforgive.org.

I'm Krista Tippett.

As the US presidential campaign draws to a close, Americans remain divided about how much

religion they want in their political life.

This hour, we explore this ongoing discord through an evocative, relevant conversation

I had earlier this year with journalist Stephen Waldman.

He says that the culture wars of recent years distorted Americans' understanding of the

...