You're listening to The Great Simplification with Nate Higgins.

That's me.

On this show, we try to explore and simplify what's happening with energy, the economy,

the environment, and our society.

Together with scientists, experts, and leaders, this show is about understanding the bird's-eye

view of how everything fits together, where we go from here and what we can do about it

as a society and as individuals.

As listeners of the Great Simplification are aware, I spend a lot of time debunking economic

theory as the explanatory story for how the human ecosystem functions.

But joining me today is a real economist, Steve Keene, who pretty much full-time writes

and speaks on debunking economics.

In addition to teaching heterodox economics, Steve is also currently a research fellow at

the Institute for Strategy, Resilience, and Security at University College in London.

Today, Steve and I discuss how mainstream economics misses the centrality of energy to our economy

and to our futures, the naive treatment of the risks of money and debt creation by

standard economists, and the disconnects economic theory has with respect to climate change

risks.

I hope you enjoy this wide-ranging conversation where Steve Keene does not hold back any punches

on explaining how our world really works. Hello, Steve.

Hi, Nate.

Good to see you.

Good to see you.

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