Bill Michael Schumer is the founding publisher of Skeptic Magazine.

You know, I started seeing him on some of the top talk shows in the 80s.

If any of you boomers, remember Donna Cue.

He was on there a lot, some of the other shows.

Dr. Steven Meyer is director of the Discovery Institute Center for Science and Culture,

and his newest book is The Return of the God Hypothesis.

And Bill, I've noticed that there are a lot of people commenting that this exchange,

we're going to see some clips from it between these two.

That is an example of a very respectful civil exchange.

They stick to their views, but they're generous with one another.

And they have a good time.

And Bill, you've had interactions with both of these gentlemen.

I know they interact with your work all the time.

Yeah, Steve Meyer is remarkably ironic.

As a defender of intelligent design, he is passionately hated by many people,

and he always handles himself with such aplomb and calmness and integrity.

I think I first met Steve in 1994 at an intelligent design conference at Queen's College, Cambridge,

which brought together Steve Meyer, Bill Demsky, Michael B. He, Paul Nelson, and Philip Johnson.

They were all there, and it was just the beginning, just the nasons of the intelligent design movement.

And I was privileged to participate in that, and then since then over the years,

Steve and I have joined forces in a number of different sorts of outreaches.

I've only done one thing with Michael Schumer years and years ago.

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