Hey folks, Crete Barara here. I am sure you're all missing now and then, especially during moments of political turmoil like the

one we're in now. So this week, former now and then co-host Joanne Freeman joins me on my

podcast, stay tuned with Preet. We discuss Biden's decision not to seek re-election,

how Democrats have embraced Vice President Kamala Harris, what to expect in the

November election, and how history is being made as we speak. What follows is an excerpt from our conversation. To listen to the full episode,

head over to the stay tuned feed. You'll also find a link to it in the show notes.

I want to talk about Kamala Harris and her strengths and her strengths and her weaknesses people can examine for themselves, but I want to ask you about a particular criticism and I want to state at the outset there's no particular reason

Professor Freeman that I'm asking you this question but there has been some criticism you're helping me here I know where you're helping me here I know where you're helping you you really help me you really know how to help the guy set it up

there has been some criticism of Kamla Harris's laugh.

Are you offended by that criticism for no reason in particular?

For no reason in particular.

I am.

I am offended, but I'm offended for a very specific reason so I'm someone who clearly has done a lot of public-minded work

I talk to the public my lecture courses are online I you know and I'm very often I'm a female political historian I'm talking to

rooms full of men or men are tuning in to me online and I cannot count on two hands the

number of times someone has criticized me for laughing.

Yeah, so what the hell is that about? Well in part I lump it along with your voice is too

high it's screechy so I sound female and that's horrible. I also, I just think it's a way, I mean, people have

been saying this online in the last few days too. Men tell you to smile all the time but they don't like it when you

laugh right? So they want you to be pretty and smile but they don't want you actually make

but that's bizarre I actually you know I don't mean this sounds sort of strange. I kind of like the sound of a

woman laughing. Yes, well I like being a woman who's laughing. That means you

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