Hello, this is Matt from the Explorers podcast. I want to invite you to join me on the voyages and journeys of the most famous explorers in the history of the world. These are the thrilling and captivating stories of Vigelin, Shackleton, Lewis, and Clark, and so many other famous and not so famous adventures from throughout history.

Go to Explorespodcast.com or just look us up on your podcast app.

That's the Explorers Podcast.

Hi, and welcome to Spycast from the Secret Files of the International Spy Museum in Washington, D.C.

I'm Dr. Vintotin, the museum's historian and curator.

Every week, SpyCast brings you interesting conversations with authors, scholars, and practitioners

who live in the world of global espionage.

If you have any questions, comments, or concerns about Spycast, or if you want to suggest

someone who might be a good future guest, email us at Spycast at SpyMuseum.org.

That's Spycast at SpyMuseum.org.

Also, if you like what you hear, and even if you don't, please take a minute to review us on

iTunes or whatever platform you might be listening.

We're always looking for ways to make Spycasts better and you can help.

Hello. Welcome to the International Spy Museum. I'm Amanda Olki, Director of Adult Education here.

I'm so glad you're here for Spy Chat with our executive director, Chris Costa.

Chris should need no introduction, but for the record, he is a former intelligence officer of 34 years, with 25 of those in active duty,

hotspots such as Panama, Bosnia, Afghanistan, and Iraq.

He's also a past special assistant to the President and Senior Director for Counterterrorism

on the National Security Council. And today, Chris is joined by Karen Schaefer, who is an advisory board member here.

During Karen's 26-year career with the CIA, she held numerous leadership positions,

including overseas assignments as an operations officer in Latin America, Europe, Afghanistan,

and Iraq.

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