Special Episode: Jon Adams and Edmund Ramsden & Rat City

This Podcast Will Kill You

Exactly Right and iHeartPodcasts

Health & Fitness, Science

4.8 • 17.7K Ratings

🗓️ 24 February 2026

⏱️ 59 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

What happens if you put a bunch of rats in an enclosure and provision them with unlimited food and water? Researcher John B. Calhoun was committed to finding out. Results from Calhoun’s “rat utopia” experiments from the mid-20th century revealed a behavioral dark side that emerged as space grew increasingly limited, ultimately leading to complete population collapse. As headlines conveyed dire warnings about global overpopulation, Calhoun’s work served to reinforce those fears and shape our understanding of the importance of personal space. In this week’s TPWKY book club episode, Jon Adams and Edmund Ramsden join me to discuss their book, Rat City: Overcrowding and Urban Derangement in the Rodent Universes of John B. Calhoun. Tune in for a fascinating a tour through Calhoun’s bizarre and influential research, which even inspired a beloved (if a little creepy) children’s book and movie, Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH.

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Transcript

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0:00.0	This is exactly right.
0:07.0	People who didn't do what John of God wanted them to do, they usually disappeared.
0:15.0	John of God was once Brazil's most famous spiritual healer.
0:20.0	But in this limited series podcast, we uncover the darker truth behind his global empire of faith and fear.
0:29.0	From exactly right and Adonde Media, this is Two-Faced, John of God.
0:34.6	Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The
0:57.0	The Hi, I'm Erin Welsh, and this is This Podcast Will Kill You. Welcome to another episode of the TPWKY Book Club.
1:35.0	In this series, I bring on authors of popular science and medicine books and ask them a million and one questions about their books, about their process, and about themselves.
1:45.9	I have loved putting these episodes together, and we have featured some fascinating books
1:51.3	so far this season. If you'd like to check out the full list of books in the TPWKY Book
1:56.8	Club from this season and seasons past, you know the drill. Head over to our website,
2:02.2	this podcast will kill you.com, find the extras tab, and click on the link to our bookshop.org
2:08.1	affiliate page. On that page, you'll find a bunch of podcast-related book lists, including one for
2:14.5	this book club. I'm constantly updating these lists, so make sure that you check
2:19.0	in regularly to see what books might be featured in future episodes or if there were any that
2:24.9	you missed. Pro tip, these lists are great sources for gift ideas for the book lovers in your life.
2:31.7	If you have any books that you think would be a perfect fit for one of these
2:34.9	episodes, please reach out through the contact us form on our website. We always love hearing from
2:40.0	you all. A couple more pieces of business before moving on to the book of the week. And that is to
2:45.6	first, please rate, review, and subscribe. It really does help us out. And second, you can now find full video
2:53.0	versions of most of our newest episodes on YouTube. Follow Exactly Right Media's YouTube channel
2:58.7	so you never miss a new episode drop. Imagine you're standing in line at a cafe,
	...

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