Before we go any further, I realise that many of you must have been listening to this podcast thinking,

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dip your toe into a whole new world of journalism.

Hello, my name is Richard Poit and welcome to a special edition of the New European Podcast.

We will, of course, be back with myself and Steve on Friday, but now we thought we'd bring you a special

interview conducted by Lord Andrew Adonis, New European Regular, of course, and the former

Prime Minister of Australia, Kevin Rudd, where he talks about everything from coronavirus,

China, to reforms of the World Health Organisation. Sit back and enjoy.

Kevin, as an Oxford grad, we'll take it as a huge compliment

that you're doing a PhD at Oxford at the moment on what couldn't be a more topical subject

than President Xi's worldview. You've been following China more close than almost anyone

in the West for 45 years. How does his worldview change significantly, do you think, from what we've got

used to in the post-Deng regime? Is it a big change? Are we moving to a big new form of

dictatorship, or is it evolution? What's going on? Analytically, I think we're looking at a

cocktail of some evolution and some revolution.

...