The first thing I want to say up front is that everybody has to go watch songs from the hole on Netflix right now.

It's up on Netflix. I want to encourage you to go watch it right now.

This episode, we are talking to the creators of that film about what it take to create

something so beautiful and vulnerable. It's a film about the life and journey of JJ88, who is

a musician who was incarcerated at the age of 15.

He was incarcerated for 16 years for taking another young man's life.

And this film, it's like an opera, like a musical documentary.

It takes you through his music, through his words, through his journey of being lost as a young person, a journey

of finding himself. It's really a journey of growing up, of forgiveness and of transformative

justice, of changing, of community. It's really a beautiful unfolding of a life that is actually shaped by so much violence.

The music in this film, this album that actually came out of it, was created while 88 was in

the hole, so songs from the hole, hence the name. And the songs are honestly such a beautiful portrait of a journey into someone's interior,

where there's pain, where there's a longing for connection, where there's a longing for

transformation.

I mean, he really just takes you there through the music. And I think it's a longing for transformation. I mean, he really just takes you there

through the music. And I think it's really important for us to bear witness to these stories,

because these are the stories of people we love. There are stories, too. And 88 does such an

incredible job. And Contessa Gales, who directed the film, Richie Recita,

who's also one of the producers and a friend of this show,

just come together in a really amazing way

to talk about what healing really means,

what it means for us actually to transform

...