Oh my god, hi, it's me Dave, Holmes. And welcome to Troubled Waters. The show that treats popular

culture as the most important kind of culture. Oh, we rip it apart here, but with love. And in order

to do that, we pit a pair of entertainers against one another in a pop culture battle to the ego

death. To win it, each of our guests will be called upon to use their smarts, their rhetorical

skills, the great comebacks they wish they had said in the moment to earn the coveted Troubled Waters title

Punted Emeritus, which will automatically give their opinion on how the paper stacks up to the office

more weight than a civilians. You're listening to Troubled Waters. the troubled waters. Let's meet our guest. You want to? Let's do it. Our first contestant is a writer and comedian. You can check out her painting parties on Twitch. It's Mary Houlihan. Hello. Hello.

Tell me about these Twitch painting parties.

Well, I have a Twitch show, and I paint and the people at home paint.

And I get tired after an hour, so everyone has to make their paintings really fast, and then they sent them in.

And then we go, oh, my God, wow, you're so talented.

Oh, that's so good.

You're putting good stuff into the world.

And you're listening to and respecting your body.

Yes, exactly.

I love it.

What a beautiful combination.

Our second contestant hosts the Trollho podcast and his debut special, Supple Harlet, is out now. It's Ben Katzner. Hello, Ben. Hello. Thank you for having me.

Great to be here. I am thrilled to have you. Please define a supple harlot. It's the opposite of

respecting and listening to my body, I would say. It's a simple

harlot is, you know, for me, that's what it is. It can be whatever you want. Subpoherlet is,

it's a vibe. It's a mood. It's a feeling. It's a voluptuous woman in a romance novel, maybe,

...