Hey there, this is a two-part story.

So if you're hearing this one without having heard the first of our stories about the

politics of population, you should really go back and listen to that one. It's got a ton of historical

context that really helps to understand this episode. Okay, have fun.

Justine Paradise. Hi, Jimmy Gutierrez.

Yow. So I left you all in a bit of Hi, Jimmy Gutierrez. Yo!

So I left you all on a bit of a cliffhanger at the end of the last episode?

Right.

There was about, there was about to be a takeover, a mutiny.

All right, let's start with Ben Zuckerman.

He was born in the 40s, and I've heard him

described as a red diaper baby.

What does this mean?

I feel like it can't mean what I think it means.

Like his parents were communists and they raised him as a communist from the time that he was in diapers.

My family was definitely very left wing, but we were also very involved in just general, you know, liberal causes.

My sister Ellen was a freedom rider. She marched with Martin Luther King from Selma to Montgomery, Alabama in 1965.

I'm older than Ellen in 1959.

I was on the second ever Civil Rights March in Washington, D.C.

This is before Martin Luther King.

This Harry Belafonte was the big celebrity on our march.

That was when he was 15 years old,

...