This is an ABC podcast.

This episode contains occasional course language,

and we've used some voice actors to bring emails to life.

I've been trying to understand how my brother's ex-wife, Leslie Manukian, thinks.

My journey so far has been like tunneling through the Matrix.

I've been gradually digging deeper into the world Leslie lives in.

Actually, it's kind of like two worlds. It seems like Leslie has a fantasy world where she

invents characters and a Hollywood movie about her life.

But she also lives in the real world, where people like my brother Greg are drawn into her

spirals.

I was absolutely like the sitting duck, mate.

Greg called me the other day, and I guess he's been thinking about that too.

Like, who's the most prime target for an American female con artist with black hair?

It's Greg Ward's. You couldn't have lined it up better. Honestly, I would suggest I was the most

obvious target. I was the most obvious target.

I was looking for the North American accent.

It was done and dusted day one, man.

So do you think that she actually knew that as well,

and I guess it just made things easier for her?

No, she didn't know that because she didn't know who I was.

But it was the collision of multi-fraudster versus the other side being someone wanting to believe in the European treatment.

So far, I've found out about the trouble Leslie got into before she came to New Zealand.

...