Welcome back to the Dispatch podcast.

I'm your host, Sarah Izger joined by Steve Hayes.

And this week we are talking to Rich Goldberg.

He is a senior advisor at the Foundation

for Defense of Democracy, worked on Capitol Hill,

the U.S. National Security Council under President Trump,

and the Governor of Illinois's Chief of Staff.

He is also a Naval Reserve Intelligence Officer,

but perhaps most importantly,

has an incredible piece on Iran on the Dispatch website

from maximum pressure to maximum deference.

[♪ Music playing in background,

Let's dive right in. Rich, thank you so much for joining us.

I want to read just a section of your piece.

The president must face this unpleasant truth.

A ran has vastly expanded its illicit nuclear activities

on his watch.

His policies of maximum difference,

not Trump's policies of maximum pressure have allowed this.

Can we back up a little and just talk about

where we are with a ran and what it means to have

maximum pressure or maximum difference?

...