You're listening to the LRB podcast. I'm Malin Hay. I'm delighted to be joined this week by two legends of the LRB who need no introduction, contributing editor Column Tobin

and editor at Large Andrew O'Hagan.

Hello, Andy and Collum, and thank you so much for coming.

Hi, Mon.

Hi.

Our conversation today marks the publication of the 12th LRB collection of pieces from our archive,

and this time the theme is Siblings.

The collection is called Sisters Come Second and it

features writing by Collum Andy, Terry Castle, Stanley Cavell and Penelope Fitzgerald, among others.

Andy and Collum are joining me today in their capacity both as contributors to the book,

Collum with a piece about Thomas Mann and his brother Heinrich, Andy with a piece about his own

childhood in Glasgow,

and also as writers who in various ways have engaged with siblinghood in their own work.

So I think let's just jump into it.

And Column, let me just start by asking you about two biographical novels that you've written,

The Master, which is about Henry James and the magician, which is about Thomas Mann.

So both of these literary figures happen to be the second of five siblings, the second to the master, which is about Henry James, and the magician, which is about Thomas Mann.

So both of these literary figures happen to be the second of five siblings, the second son of five siblings. In fact, you yourself are also the second son of five siblings. And both

of them had an older brother who was also a successful writer and with whom your protagonist

had variously kind of vexed relationships.

So I guess I want to start by asking,

why were you drawn to these two second sons and writers?

...