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keeps getting more bizarre, keeps getting stranger. There were a lot of questions when these

stories started to drop when Jeffrey Goldberg first got added to the Signal chat about the hoodies

a couple of months back. What's going on with Signal? Why are they

using this encrypted private app? Is this too? Is it vulnerable to leaks? Is it vulnerable to these

kind of obsec failures? Is it in keeping with federal records requirements where they need

to log this stuff? We just got a brand new bit of reporting over the weekend from Joseph Cox.

He's the co-founder of 404 Media. He focuses on

cybersecurity and the digital underground. He's here to talk about his scoop. Thanks for coming

on, Joseph. Absolutely. Thanks for having me. So this is such a great story. I mean, in so many ways,

but one of the most, well, let's start with the meat of it first. I mean, like, can you just

talk us through? What do we know about Signal and how the White House is using it today that we

didn't know before you guys had this story this weekend? As you know, the White House is using Signal,

but then what we found recently was that they use a special version or a modified version called

telemessage. And we found that because a Re special version or a modified version called telemessage.

And we found that because a Reuters photographer took a photo of Waltz at the recent cabinet meeting.

And if you zoom in, you can see that it's a weird version of signal.

It turns out it's basically a version that copies the signal messages for storage later. Huh, that's pretty interesting.

Also brought up even more questions of, well, how susceptible is that to being hacked? What if that is

then targeted? Lo and behold, I don't know, it took 48 hours, something like that. And what we have

now with this reporting over the weekend is that a hacker did

target telemessage and did manage to obtain some users direct messages and group chats sent over

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