Welcome back to the political party. This is episode seven, featuring the former Conservative MP

and our media commentator and journalist Pundit Matthew Parris, one of the true gentleman

of British politics and it was on fine form that evening at the British Library.

Absolutely top bloke. He's led a very colourful career including working for Margaret,

actually, before we did an MP. It took very interestingly about what it takes to be a rebel

and which is something highly relevant at the moment, of course, given the issues that David

Cameron had had given the way Parliament has been in the last few years. He had just a genuine

insight on the mind of a backbench MP. He is, of course, as dignified, particularly when talking

about Tony Blair, it's a man he really doesn't like. I won't ruin it, but listen to him on that bit

in particular. The show is a slightly different format so we'll start straight off with the interview.

This is me talking to Matthew Parris.

Thank you very much. I'd like to start by, as soon as we're part of a propaganda exhibition,

and I deliberately asked you to come and do this because I thought your experience both as a

parliamentarian and as someone who's worked in the media is unique for understanding both politics

as propaganda and media as propaganda. In terms of this modern era, so let's say the sort of

post that, well, including that year, who do you think has been the worst offender in trying to

manipulate the public, politicians or the media? It's pretty even, it's pretty even, even draw.

I think the world of politics has got much more propaganda wise, more manipulation wise.

It actually started in the last years of Mrs. Thatcher, Bernard Ingham, was very media savvy.

Then Tony Blair really took the ball and ran with it. Now, when you try to make your case

in politics or make the case that you're an effective politician, it's always in terms of

how good you are at the media, how good you are at propaganda, how good you are at getting a

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