Hello and welcome to the political party.

Today's guest is Shabana Mahmoud, the Home Secretary,

and you may have already seen some of the extensive media coverage

that surrounded the recording this episode.

There were protesters in the audience, and they were very vocal at the start and Shabana

handled it very well and was very direct in her assessment of them.

That is all left in.

That is all left in unedited.

So you can hear how it went down in the room.

But there is so much more to this show

than that controversy. This is a phenomenal conversation with someone who's thought really

deeply about a lot of the problems we face as a country. And when you think about the office

she holds, the home office, crime, immigration, just where we are as a country and also

what Labour people should feel comfortable

with regarding controls and immigration, who we let in, who we have to say no to, who we have

to deport, and also the sorts of crimes we face in how you solve those problems, and we face a

multitude of problems, and the system in so many ways clearly isn't working. And Shabana gives a

forensic analysis of where things have gone wrong and also in her view, how they can be changed.

And this, it's just a, I've never interviewed her before. And she's a fascinating person,

working class Muslim from Birmingham, with all the hurdles that will have involved in

her life, arriving with the sort of politics that she has, and having the guts to really take

on really difficult policy areas. But I's thought about them really clearly, and I think that's

...