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Thank you. perspective. The economist know which way is up. Hello and welcome to the political party. Today's guest is Tom Tuganat.

Good friend of the show. He's been on a few times before, and the perfect time to check in with him.

Obviously, he's chaired a select committee, he's been a minister, stood for the Tory leadership,

and now is a backbench opposition MP.

So it's fascinating talking to him about the state of the Tory party, the defections to reform on what they mean, just how he feels

about it and how he categorises reform, how he feels about unite the kingdom and Tommy Robinson

and the anxiety that people feel about the marches that they've seen recently.

This is, it's also, there's a lot of silly stuff in here.

It's Tom, as he always is, you know, very thoughtful, but also very funny.

But I think he's really philosophical, and he really helped me think through some of the things

about what we've been seeing in the last couple of weeks.

And maybe sort of just put them into context a bit.

So this is phenomenal, as always, and he's just on top form.

And just a really good insight into the mood of the Tory party and how they feel about the next election and how they recover their reputation and what's the best way to do that.

So there's a whole load of stuff in here.

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