Should the Fall be celebrated? | Caleb Woodbridge and Damien Walter on Pullman/CSLewis hosted by John Nelson

Unbelievable?

Premier Unbelievable?

Christianity, Religion & Spirituality

4.7 • 2.4K Ratings

🗓️ 24 June 2026

⏱️ 85 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Philip Pullman has called C.S. Lewis’s Narnia stories a “filthy lie” — but is that fair? In this episode of Unbelievable, John Nelson is joined by Christian writer Caleb Woodbridge and science-fiction critic Damien Walter to explore Narnia, His Dark Materials, myth, imagination and the search for meaning in a secular age. They discuss Pullman’s critique of Lewis, the “problem of Susan,” whether Christianity suppresses maturity or offers a deeper vision of reality, and why fantasy and science fiction continue to wrestle with God, goodness, suffering and hope. Can stories reveal truth? Is Christianity simply one myth among many — or, as Lewis believed, the “true myth” behind them all? Subscribe & Support 👉 Support thought-provoking conversations and help keep the show going at www.premierunbelievable.com/geolink/donate💡 🎧 Never miss an episode! Subscribe to the Unbelievable? podcast at www.premier.plus/unbelievable 🎙️ 🔗 Get bonus content, updates, fascinating articles, and early access to new episodes - absolutely free! Join now at www.premierunbelievable.com 📢 Follow us Instagram: https://instagram.com/premierunbelievable Facebook: https://facebook.com/premierunbelievable Tik Tok: https://tiktok.com/@premier.unbelievable X: Premier Unbelievable? (@UnbelievableFE)

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0	This episode is brought to you by the University of St Andrews and its online Bible and the Contemporary World program.
0:07.8	Design for flexible part-time study, it enables students to engage major contemporary issues,
0:13.8	including politics, ethics, inequality, trauma, climate change and the arts,
0:19.1	through biblical and theological reflection. With short
0:22.6	focus teaching, interactive discussion and strong academic support, it fits around work and other
0:28.8	commitments. To find out more, search St Andrew's Bible and the Contemporary World online.
0:35.0	For boys like Jay, born into extreme poverty in Nairobi, there are few choices.
0:41.1	This is his story. My name is Jay Inberra. I grew up in one of the biggest slams that we have in the
0:46.7	world. There was no hope. Jay became trapped, begging, then stealing, then prison. And I asked God
0:53.9	to take me out of prison.
0:55.5	The second thing I pray God to help me get out of poverty.
0:59.0	Miraculously, Jay was released from prison.
1:02.2	Soon after, the local church welcomed him into the Compassion Program.
1:06.6	But then one day I had my name being called and I received a sponsor from California.
1:11.8	Through his sponsor, Jay received practical and emotional support that transformed his life.
1:17.9	Today he teaches life skills to children and shows them that it is possible to escape poverty.
1:24.1	Will you move with compassion and sponsor a child?
1:26.8	Visit CompassionUK.org slash premiere.
1:34.8	C.S. Lewis is one of the most beloved writers in 20th century fiction, but are his
1:42.7	narnia stories, as Philip Pullman recently claimed,
1:45.8	a filthy lie. I'm John Nelson, and today on Unbelievable, we're discussing the theology of fiction
1:51.1	and whether Pullman's critique of Lewis stands up to scrutiny. To help me unpack this topic,
	...

Transcript will be available on the free plan in 21 days. Upgrade to see the full transcript now.

Previous episode | Next episode

Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Premier Unbelievable?, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.

Generated transcripts are the property of Premier Unbelievable? and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.