All right, we're actually sitting on the bus heading out to Media Day at the

Shot Show where a lot of new products are going to be shown out there.

And I'm fortunate enough to be sitting next to Dave Kopold.

Now Dave, you've been on the radio show before with us. You might just give folks your background because you've been basically a Second Amendment scholar for an awful long time.

Sure, I've been involved in the issue for about a quarter century now.

I work at the Independence Institute which is the think tank

in Colorado. I'm also a law professor at Denver University and a frequent

contributor to America's first freedom. Okay well that works for sure.

So everybody, at this point, everybody knows about Heather, everybody knows about McDonnell, but I'm thinking

what a lot of people are still not getting, at least if they're not involved in this as much as you

are is to what extent those two decisions are still being fleshed out in terms of what

does it really mean and I know that just to put it to put a point

on this there are court cases and decisions that are kind of chipping away at

Heller will you agree?

Yes, or it was some cases certainly trying to interpret it in the most restrictive and narrow way possible.

For example, coming out of the

fourth circuit court and the and it is also the fourth circuit court

of appeals which covers the the mid-Atlantic area

both decisions saying that under Heller there is no right

at all to carry in a public place. And I think that's contrary to what Heller and McDonald both say, but both of these courts have said,

we're not going to acknowledge any right to carry unless the Supreme Court officially tells us to explicitly with no wiggle room at all.

And I think the Supreme Court already had said so explicitly enough, but not so explicitly

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