Before we begin today's episode of Australian true crime, I want to tell you about a new project

we've been working on behind the scenes. It's called She Matters. It's a new podcast from

award-winning journalist and femicide researcher Shirel Moody. Each week, Shirel speaks with

families of women and children killed in Australia, sharing who they were, the joy they brought,

and the love they left behind. She Matters isn't a true crime podcast. It's about lives lived, lives loved and lives lost. She Matters is produced by Dashmade podcasts in association with bravecasting media. She Matters is available wherever you get your podcasts.

Andrew Stamper is a 40-year veteran of the Victorian Police Service.

He took on major investigative roles from the early 2000s,

and he joins us again on Australian True Crime for this second part of a special two-part series. This is Australian True Crime. We acknowledge the

traditional owners of the land on which this podcast is created, the Wurundri Woi Warang

people of the Koolin Nation. And a warning, this episode of the podcast contains graphic descriptions of violence.

I was told very early in my police career that you can always go from being Mr. Nice to Mr.

angry, but you can never go from being Mr. Angry to Mr. Nice.

Once you're Mr. Angry, you've got to stay Mr. Angry.

I wonder if you have any tricks that you could share now because you're no longer on the

tools, you're no longer interviewing people.

Well, I think that's all about rapport.

So a lot of people are sitting in a room accused of murdering another

person. They probably don't feel like they're going to get a good, they're going to be

treated that well. And I always think that, you know, and I think my upbringing has always

been, I always treat people with respect.

And generally speaking, from my experience, you're not going to get any way at being, you know, finger in the chest, angry person.

So, you know, and that was one thing that Ron was really good at, you know,

...