Welcome to the Eurointelligence podcast. I'm Wolfgang Munchau and with me are Zuzana Monsenk and Jack Smith.

Today we would like to talk about industrialization, de-industrialization and re-industrialization.

Zosanna, you had a story this morning about how France and Germany are moving in the exact opposite directions on this issue.

What is happening?

It's happening because of the debt break in Germany that actually binds Germany to a certain

fiscal rigor that France has not.

So France is going ahead with his subsidies and makes it really an ambition and also a target to re-industrialize France.

So here comes a country that is known for its food, for its fashion, for its services, an economy that was driven by demand.

Now all of a sudden embracing industrialization, the moment

where all the new technologies come, it wants to be a winner in this ecological and digital

transition. It's kind of a revolutionary moment in the economy. We all witness it. We're all going to

have to adapt to it. So there will be

new players on the field and there will be winners and losers. So now the way we're seeing it is

that France is putting its money and also its ambitions and political cloud behind these

new plans and factories for batteries, but also it has designed a strategy in

2030. They launched it two years ago with over 30 billion of public money, basically to

kickstart some of the projects in hydrogen and energy and decarbonization of the economy but also in nuclear small nuclear reactors.

So far they've been kickstarting over 3,000 projects as a thriving market in the economy already.

On the other side, you see Germany, you have the constitutional break.

Christian Jinta going hard down on us, also the ruling in Karlsruhe,

basically closing the possibility for the German government

to divert funds into the climate change funds,

...