Brett McKay here and welcome to another edition of the Art of Manliness

Podcast when people think of the plays of Shakespeare,

they tend to think of as comedies and tragedies that spotlight interpersonal dynamics like love and jealousy,

pretense in reality.

But my guest would say that many of Shakespeare's plays, especially as sometimes overlooked

histories, are also unmatchable and revealing the dynamics of power.

Elliot Cohen is a military historian, political scientist, professor of international studies,

and former State Department counselor,

as well as the author of The Hollow Crown,

Shakespeare and how leaders rise, rule, and fall.

Today in the show, Elliot takes us through what Shakespeare's plays can teach us about navigating the three-part arc of power, acquiring power, exercising power, and losing power.

Along the way, we discuss how these lessons and leadership played out in the lies of real life historical figures as well.

After the show's over, check at our show notes at A.w.m.

I. slash Shakespeare. All right Elliot Elliot Cohen, welcome to the show.

It's good to be with you, Brett.

Thanks for having me.

So you got a new book out called The Hollow Crown, Shakespeare

on how leaders rise, rule, and fall. Tell us about your

background and how did your background lead you to writing a book about what

Shakespeare can teach us about power?

So it's a little bit unusual. I'm not a literature professor or anything like that. I've spent a career in the university world but also in government. I'm mainly a military historian.

Somebody writes a lot about national security policy,

...