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The Good Fight

Shadi Hamid on the Tensions Between Liberalism and Democracy

The Good Fight

Yascha Mounk

News

4.6907 Ratings

🗓️ 24 December 2022

⏱️ 71 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Shadi Hamid is a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and a contributing writer at The Atlantic. His latest book is The Problem of Democracy: America, the Middle East, and the Rise and Fall of an Idea. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Shadi Hamid discuss what happens when liberalism and democracy clash; whether countries with freely elected but highly illiberal governments can remain democratic; and why every consistent democrat has to embrace at least a minimal form of liberalism. This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity. Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: [email protected] Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by John Taylor Williams, and Brendan Ruberry Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk & @joinpersuasion Youtube: Yascha Mounk LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

If a government restricted protests of over a hundred people, that would be a violation of political

0:08.0

liberalism and it would affect the fairness of democratic competition. But if you think about an elected government

0:14.8

that restricted the right to consume alcohol, that restricted abortions, that introduced

0:20.9

laws on blasphemy as it relates to insulting profits and divine texts,

0:26.1

or an elected government that made it harder for women to initiate divorce proceedings,

0:31.1

those might be objectionable and even morally abhorrent to us, but they don't

0:36.2

violate a minimalist conception of democracy.

0:40.2

And now the good fight with Yasha Monck.

0:42.8

This is the last podcast of the year.

0:53.0

Recording the podcast is always a favorite part of my day.

0:58.0

It is a reason and excuse to have wonderful conversations with people I admire, I respect, I learn from, but it's been in some ways a year of tough conversations when we think back to the beginnings of the terrible war in Ukraine, when we think of many of the other reasons

1:21.7

for concern about the state of freedom in the world in the state of democracy

1:27.2

over the last 12 months.

1:30.3

And yet I'm ending this year with a little bit of hope.

1:36.0

I actually think that the last 12 months have been a crucible for freedom and democracy, a moment of real challenge,

1:46.2

but also one that has demonstrated the lasting strengths of the ideals to which I am devoted of individual freedom and collective

1:58.0

self-government.

2:00.1

We saw that with the defeat of election deniers in the midterms in the United States.

2:05.4

We saw it with the defeat of Hia Bolsonaro in Brazil.

2:11.7

We saw it with some of the protests in China. We saw it certainly with the

2:21.9

inspiring movement to overthrow the theocratic regime in Iran.

2:30.0

Democracy continues to be contested and in many countries under serious threat.

...

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